10 Mar

Canon/Nikon: The next major step is..

Posted by smith under enart.hubeidaxue.com

  • Now that the mega-pixel race is slowing down, and people aren't quite so impressed by more, more, more, and both companies now have both a full-frame pro body and pro-sumer body, what's the next big innovation for these two going to be? I'm not talking about a slightly faster FPS count, or marginally improved high ISO performance, but something big. I've been thinking about this for a little while now, and I'm thinking it's got to be in-body image stabilization.

    Anyone agree? Disagree? What do you think?


  • No, it's not bracketing I don't think (??). I've seen it advertized is 3 different cameras. Two were SLRs I think and one was a bridge camera - the newer Fuji. I dunno if it is taking a second exposure or just just copying the one exposure, adjusting it's level, and merging the two (or three?). But the result is no blowouts.


  • LOL


  • In-body is a nice thought but the place that needs the stabilization the most is the end of the lens.

    Since the camera body is usually the pivot point simple math tells you that the best place (most economical too) is where there is the most movement ie-the end of the lens. (hint for the math challenged: remember fulcrums and levers)

    Now if they could come up with an AI that would view a scene like a human eye/brain would and then capture a "memory" They might have something!


  • slightly off topic but going with the in body IS thing a bit.

    It's like Nikon bringing out the bodies without a focusing motor (D40), it's the perfect move. People that are new to photography looking to get 'seriously' in to it will look for a DSLR but can't justify spending too much so buy the entry level models without the motor. Now they've got the camera they need to buy good lenses, AF-S lenses etc, and so when they upgrade they have to go with Nikon again, sensible option since they've spent all this cash on good glass. D40's etc get sold second hand, even cheaper for other people new to photography to pickup and then they're in the same boat.

    I think my point here is, they have less in-body (cheaper cameras) and more in the lenses (you've got to then buy decent lenses).. therefore you have good, expensive glass and more likely to stay with that brand.


  • Fully photographer controlled focus, aperture selection, shutter speed selection, ISO selection, and frame per second control through an elegant system of knobs/levers accompanied by a new silver halide sensor and using batteries only for flash operation ... all encapsulated in a metal body with a life span approaching that of the photographer's career.

    Here is a prototype that I was able to obtain, at great risk to my own safety, from Nikon's "SKUNKWORKS" buried deep inside Mount Fuji.

    http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a247/lww/CherryNikonFwBC7.jpg

    Stay tuned for further updates on this amazing new technological tour de force!

    LWW


  • Next developments to look for will be:

    Improved ISO

    Image bit-depth (none of the dSLRs offer 16-bit color depth yet.)

    Dynamic Range (partially achieved through greater bit depth as well as ISO.) Look to get to at least 12 stops of dynamic range. Digital MFs already claim to be able to do that. (This may result in in-camera HDR, a marketing solution.)

    Resolution on lines-per-milimeter. Right now super-sharp lenses are still out-performing sensors. The good Leica lenses (for instance) can resolve down to 10 lines per milimeter, and digital sensors in entry-level dSLRs can only capture 4 lines at best. Film is still much higher resolution when comparing l/mm. The new sensors in flagships like the D3 or 1Ds are definitely being underserved by their manufacturer's lenses. Even Canon's L lenses aren't keeping up with the sensors.

    Digital-optimized lenses (lines-per-milimeter). That's partially a good idea (see comment above) and partially marketing hype.

    We may see more in-camera IS because the market demands it, but anyone with a rudimentary sense of physics knows that it's a crap solution. A 600mm lens requires a different solution than a 35mm lens. You would have to write a lot of code to make them marry successfully. It's possible, but it's a market-driven work-around, not a technological solution.

    Coolest niche-function I've seen in a while is focus-bracketing. The new Leaf AFi has it. You can take up to seven exposures automatically at different focal points, and then composite the shots later on. This results in a massive DOF for landscape and architecture work if you can't or don't want to work with long exposure times and narrow apertures.


  • Sensors with increased dynamic range would be good


  • Sensors with increased dynamic range would be good

    :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: +1000

    That's really the #1 problem... the simple fact that the camera is incapable of doing what the human eye and brain do together. TBH sometimes I like the effect that this has, but in many cases it's incredibly annoying not being able to reproduce what we see without bizarro methods like HDR or filters.


  • Coolest niche-function I've seen in a while is focus-bracketing. The new Leaf AFi has it. You can take up to seven exposures automatically at different focal points, and then composite the shots later on. This results in a massive DOF for landscape and architecture work if you can't or don't want to work with long exposure times and narrow apertures.

    Ooohhhh... Sexy! :thumbup:


  • Not so much an image thing, but are there any dslr's out there that can mail pictures immediately? I think that might be in the future for photojournalistst. Everybody can send pictures from their (cellphone)camera's now, but the pro's have to upload first. Or am I mistaken?




    pascal


  • IS built into the body, rather than having to decide between the right lens for the job and the wrong one that happens to have IS...oh wait, Sony's doing that while the CaNikonites are too busy flinging poo at each other.

    A digital body that can still use cheap and readily available old film lenses...oops, Sony's doing that too.

    Looks like the next step is to buy an Alpha.

    I'd rather have IS in the lens and not the body. Old film lenses? Sorry, Canon did that before Sony did. What do you mean by "the wrong one that happens to have IS"? If I don't need IS I just shut it off.

    Not to start another Canon vs. Sony vs. Nikon war, but I'd rather have a camera made by a camera company and not a "everything electronics" company.


  • There's got to be enough room for a SIM card and an aerial in there somewhere? There's probably processing power to spare and enough buttons to control it. Would you want it transmitting when you're holding it to your eye though?

    good point. Maybe an on/off switch for that?



    (Oh, and I would be great if you could watch television on it too..;))




    pascal


  • Since Olympus and Pentax already have it, inbody IS would hardly be an innovation. Just further proof that Canikon continue to get richer off the features that the tiny, likely failing brands actually "innovate".

    Such can be said for all capitalism without invention, but I digress.

    Good point reg; I guess what I should have said was, "What's going to be their next big feature that they shove down our throats, telling us we need and which makes all of our current kit obsolete?"


  • IS built into the body, rather than having to decide between the right lens for the job and the wrong one that happens to have IS...oh wait, Sony's doing that while the CaNikonites are too busy flinging poo at each other.

    A digital body that can still use cheap and readily available old film lenses...oops, Sony's doing that too.

    Looks like the next step is to buy an Alpha.


  • ^yup, what are they good for just now, about 6-9 stops? pah!


  • Photoshop-in-Camera

    that way people can truthfully say.. "nah, it's straight out the camera."


  • I think they will just work on optimzing the sensors overall and, getting the firmware to work alot better. I know Id like to see a 24MP sensor with the D3/700s high ISOs and, even less noise. If they figured out how to eliminate noise would be nice too.


  • Not so much an image thing, but are there any dslr's out there that can mail pictures immediately? I think that might be in the future for photojournalistst. Everybody can send pictures from their (cellphone)camera's now, but the pro's have to upload first. Or am I mistaken?
    I believe the new Canon 40D and 1D grips have this ability.

    Edit: From the DPReview.com review of the 40D

    WFT-E3/E3A wireless transmitter / grip
    The most interesting new addition from an accessory point of view is the WFT-E3/E3A wireless transmitter which now also doubles up as a vertical grip. Attached to the EOS 40D it provides all the normal vertical grip controls as well as WiFi, Wired Ethernet and USB storage connectivity. It has its own BP-511 battery which it is said will last as long (in constant use) as that in the camera. The WFT-E3 supports various protocols including FTP, PTP (remote control) and even has a built-in web server for HTTP browsing of images and remote shutter release.


  • http://www.mesa-imaging.ch/pdf/SR3000_Flyer_Jan07.pdf
    http://www.mesa-imaging.ch/prodviews.php
    http://www.measurementdevices.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=258


  • I've been waiting for a 6 or 8 mp APS-C compact digital from Nikon or Canon. That's what would excite me the most.

    In DSLRs the increases in usable ISO have significantly influenced my shooting. I tried every high speed film/developer combo available in the late 90s, and no matter what the label said, actual film speed topped out at around ISO 800. ISO 1600 on any Canon DSLR I own is as clean or cleaner than ISO 400 35mm film. With the 5D I can push that to ISO 6400 or 12800, and it still looks better than 35mm Tmax 3200p. The Nikon D3 is giving us a taste of what's to come, but when photogs are getting usable ISOs 102,400 and above it's going to be amazing.


  • Neglect? User Abuse? Elitism? :D


  • Since Olympus and Pentax already have it, inbody IS would hardly be an innovation.


    Maybe I've talked to the wrong people, but I've heard several people say that the in-lens stabilization is superior to in-body stabilization.

    I personally would like to see the megapixel count continue to increase. Affordable MF-range dSLRs? I'm there.


  • Actually, if you read the mags, the technology has just come on line with the potential to design a gigapixel 3D camera chip, so the megapixels wars are going to the next level eventually. The only question is WHEN?

    skieur


  • If HDR continues with its growing popularity, I would bet someone is going to build it into the camera. We are already 1/2 way there.... most cameras have auto exposure bracketing AND a fast enough frame per sec rate. All we need is built in HDR processing and a fancy interface to package it all up as a single in-camera function.


  • Not so much an image thing, but are there any dslr's out there that can mail pictures immediately? I think that might be in the future for photojournalistst. Everybody can send pictures from their (cellphone)camera's now, but the pro's have to upload first. Or am I mistaken?
    pascal

    There's got to be enough room for a SIM card and an aerial in there somewhere? There's probably processing power to spare and enough buttons to control it. Would you want it transmitting when you're holding it to your eye though?


  • yeah well i just meant between the big names, etc.. but yeah you end up with less that costs more.. people sometimes oversee how expensive lenses can be. Was just a thought as i couldn't see any other reason for not including a motor in the body!.


  • This is a vast improvement over the current sensor designs, which seem to be engineered to protect all the other electronics from dust by attracting it to, and holding it firmly on the high-pass filter.

    Dust has always been the photographer's bane. Modern film photographers rarely deal with it themselves, but behind closed doors there used to be a lab tech with white cotton gloves and a tiny paint brush (at least at the full service labs) spending hours fixing dust marks. Every print had to be spotted individually unless someone was confident enough to have a go at retouching the neg. A tiny hair stuck in the emulsion of a neg becomes huge in the print, and if the film had fine grain spotting in a similar pattern required a very light touch. Screw it up and either live with it, or start over with a new print. Dust can become a problem when loading the film, in the camera, changing lenses, removing the film, developing the film, and printing. I'm sure most labs using modern printers are fixing dust digitally even from film. There are a lot of neat things about film; the way it handles dust is not one of them.


  • new silver halide sensor

    As a bonus, the sensor is replaced after each shot. This is a vast improvement over the current sensor designs, which seem to be engineered to protect all the other electronics from dust by attracting it to, and holding it firmly on the high-pass filter.

    :greenpbl:


  • But their bodies are actually the most expensive. So really you end up getting less and paying more. No?


  • If HDR continues with its growing popularity, I would bet someone is going to build it into the camera. We are already 1/2 way there.... most cameras have auto exposure bracketing AND a fast enough frame per sec rate. All we need is built in HDR processing and a fancy interface to package it all up as a single in-camera function.

    We do have that already in some models. It's not 96bpp or anything though. They just use it to recapture blown highlights and stuff.


  • Here is the next major step. Fuel cell that can power the entire system, flash and all.

    http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/11/canon-patents-fuel-cell-dslr-were-ready/


  • I'm voting for a camera with enough dynamic range to be marketed as an HDR Camera.


  • My 4 year old Minolta has it too. I haven't figured out what it's good for tho. You're saying it's maybe precise enough for focus stacking? I thought of that but just kinda passed it off as.. "Nah, couldn't be..." I'm going to try it now tho! Thanks!


  • what's the next big innovation for these two going to be? [...] I'm thinking it's got to be in-body image stabilization.


    Since Olympus and Pentax already have it, inbody IS would hardly be an innovation. Just further proof that Canikon continue to get richer off the features that the tiny, likely failing brands actually "innovate".

    Such can be said for all capitalism without invention, but I digress.


  • We do have that already in some models. It's not 96bpp or anything though. They just use it to recapture blown highlights and stuff.

    Curious.. which models? Are you referring to ISO bracketing in the Pentax bodies?







  • #If you have any other info about this subject , Please add it free.#
    Your name:
    E-mail:
    Telphone:

    Your comments:


    If you have any other info about Canon/Nikon: The next major step is.. , Please add it free.
    | |